The Canadian regulatory What Is Hard Eight In Craps environment is What Is Hard Eight In Craps just as What Is Hard Eight In Craps cloudy as the United States, and in fact, in some ways, it is even more confusing. When all the changes happened in the U.S., many professional real money gamblers moved to Canada to take advantage of staying in the. Some devious advice: Change your payouts on some of the sucker bets people are likely to make. For example, instead of paying 9 to 1 on the hard six and eight, pay out something like 7 to 1. On the 2 and 12, pay out 25 to 1 instead of 30 to 1. Hopes you enjoy this scene from P T Anderson's first feature Hard Eight.Phillip Seymour Hoffman taunts Philip Baker Hall. The true odds of the hard 6/8 are 10:1 but the payoff is only 9:1, giving the casino a 9% edge. And the true odds on the 4/10 are 8:1 but the payoff is only 7:1, giving the casino a 11% edge. Hard Eight Payout Craps This software cycles through millions of numbers continuously. The outcome of a spin is automatically determined by the RNG at the time you hit the spin button, making it impossible to predict in advance whether you'll win or lose.
How to identify and avoid some of the most dangerous bets in the casino
By Basil Nestor
The house edge on big six/eight is a nasty 9.1%. This bet is so incredibly bad that it's not even allowed in Atlantic City.
Craps is the only game in the casino where you can lay your money on the felt in one place, and the casino has 0% edge on the bet—or you can put your money down somewhere else, and give the house a whopping 16.7% edge.
The zero-edge bet is called 'odds', and we'll get to that in a little bit. But right now let's focus on the craps bets you should absolutely avoid, since they're some of the most unfavorable wagers you can find in a casino.
These are the sucker bets that your mother warned you not to make. These are the legendary wagers that have broken millionaires and laid waste to fat bankrolls. Much of craps' reputation as a bad-boy contest rests on these extremely disadvantageous gambles.
Big Six and Big Eight
Big six and big eight are found in the corners of some layouts, and they're the ultimate sucker bets. Each is a wager on one number, either 6 or 8, to roll before the 7. Big six or big eight work exactly like a craps 'place bet,' except the payoff is even money. That's right: $30 on the big six wins $30. The same money on 'place the six' will bring $35.
The house edge on big six/eight is a nasty 9.1%. This bet is so incredibly bad that it's not even allowed in Atlantic City.
Hardways
A 4, 6, 8, or 10 thrown as a double is called a 'hard number,' because it's rolled the hard way. Betting the hardway is a wager that a particular number will be thrown hard before a 7, and before it's thrown the easy way. Hard four and hard ten pay 7:1. Hard six and hard eight pay 9:1. The area for these bets is at the center of the table. The bet can be made at any time, or withdrawn at any time (before resolution).
It requires dealer assistance. Just put your chips on the table and tell the dealer what you want…if you dare. The house edge for hard six and hard eight is a painful 9.1%. It's an excruciating 11.1% for hard four and hard ten.
It Gets Even Worse…
The rest of the worst are all one-roll propositions: if the shooter makes the number on the next roll, you win. Otherwise, it's bye-bye chips. Like the hardways, these bets are handled by the stickperson. Put your chips down on a line, a non-betting area of the felt, and tell the dealers what you want.
The table below shows the various bets, true odds, payoffs, and the house edge. I've also included the hardways and big six/eight so you can see and compare all of craps' worst bets in one place. This is a real rogues' gallery.
Craps' Worst Bets
| Bet | True Odds | Pays | House Edge |
| Any seven (big red) | 5:1 | 4:1 | 16.7% |
| Two (snake eyes) | 35:1 | 30:1 | 13.9% |
| Twelve (boxcars) | 35:1 | 30:1 | 13.9% |
| Hop (1 way) | 35:1 | 30:1 | 13.9% |
| Whirl | 10:5 | 8:5 | 13.3% |
| Horn | 20:4 | 17:4 | 12.5% |
| Hop (2 ways) | 17:1 | 15:1 | 11.1% |
| Three (ace-deuce) | 17:1 | 15:1 | 11.1% |
| Eleven (yo-leven) | 17:1 | 15:1 | 11.1% |
| Any craps (2, 3, or 12) | 8:1 | 7:1 | 11.1% |
| Hard four | 8:1 | 7:1 | 11.1% |
| Hard ten | 8:1 | 7:1 | 11.1% |
| Hard six | 10:1 | 9:1 | 9.1% |
| Hard eight | 10:1 | 9:1 | 9.1% |
| Big six/eight | 6:5 | 1:1 | 9.1% |
By the way, this is where craps jargon really gets crazy. For example, horn is a combined bet on 2, 3, 11, and 12. The payoff is calculated as if you had bet each number separately. Your wager is divided into quarters, so if you make this long-shot bet it's a good idea to put money down in multiples of four, or request a horn high and indicate on which of the four you want the extra money: 'Horn high 12!'
Whirl is a horn bet with the 7 added. The bet is divided into five parts. C&E is craps plus 11. Buffalo is a combination of the four hardways plus a 7 or sometimes a 'yo' 11. Box cars is a bet on 12. A hop bet is a wager that a single number will be thrown in a particular way on the very next roll. Technically, 2, 3, 11, and 12 are hop bets, but you can do it with any number (assuming that you'd be willing to make such a bad wager).
This cornucopia of colorful names and slang are basically just another way of saying 'bets that stink.' There isn't a single bet in the center of the table that has a house edge of less than 9%. Betting the seven (big red) gives the house a crushing 16.7% advantage, which is flat-out the worst bet available in many casinos.
Oh, and some casinos try to trick you with the print on the felt. Writing '5 for 1' is not the same as '5 to 1.' They pretend that they're paying one more because they take your original wager. The actual payout on 5 for 1 is 4:1; 10 for 1 is actually 9:1. Really cute!
The Good Stuff
The best bets in craps begin with a small wager on pass, don't pass, come, or don't come, subsequently backed up with a standard-size odds bet (whatever amount that is standard for you, up to the odds limit) if the shooter rolls a point. Odds bets are paid at true odds with zero edge for the house. It doesn't get any better than that in craps. The combined edge on the two bets is less than 1%, or about twelve times lower than hardways or proposition wagers.
Once again, casinos get tricky. There is no place on a craps layout for odds bets. They're sort of secret, like off-menu items. To take odds on a pass-line wager, put your chips behind your original bet, off the line. Laying odds on a don't pass requires you to heel or bridge the stack on the bar; the dealers will show you how. Odds on come and don't come are handled by the dealers. For more on the intricacies of odds, check out my book The Smarter Bet Guide to Craps.
**********
Basil Nestor is author of The Smarter Bet Guide to Poker, The Smarter Bet Guide to Blackjack, and other comprehensive gambling guides. Got a question? Visit SmarterBet.com and drop him a line.
How to identify and avoid some of the most dangerous bets in the casino.
I had an idea for a new Craps prop bet and was trying to write some Python code that would simulate the bet, but ran into an issue.
My assumption was that if you flipped the rules of a bet and you flipped the payouts of the bet the house edge on that new hypothetical bet could be expressed by simply changing the sign of the house edge on the original bet.
Say you turned the hard 8 bet into a lay the hard 8 bet. You win on 7 or easy 8 before the next hard 8. You're essentially acting like the casino at that point and the payouts go from 9:1 to 1:9. Shouldn't the house edge on this new hypothetical bet be -9.09% since the house edge on hard 8 is 9.09%?
To test my assumption, I ran a 10 million round simulation of the traditional hard 8 bet and laying the hard 8 and was surprised to find that while the original hardway bet did show a house edge of ~ 9%, laying the hard 8 showed a house edge of ~ -1%.
I'm trying to determine if the mistake I've made is in the assumption that a house edge flips if you flip the payouts and the rules of the bet or if the mistake I've made is in the Python code I've written.
Any thoughts?
Returns:
Hard eight player edge: -9.11%
Lay hard eight player edge: 0.98%
Your mistake is, while you are 'acting like the casino' when you lay the bet, the casino is betting 1/9 against your 1, rather than 1 against your 9, but your house edge is based on your bet rather than the casino's.
If the casino has a 9% advantage on a hard 8, surely the player would have a 9% advantage if they could book the same exact bet as the casino, right? Putting my $9 up against the casino's $1 (which is the same scenario that plays out on a standard hard 8 bet, just reversed) is the same as putting my $1 up against the casino's $(1/9).
in any case that has to be the most unheard of bet in a casino - to take the large end of the bet. I can't think of anything like that for the moment
I'm sorry but I really don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that this bet really would only be an advantage of 1% if the player could make it? I don't see how that could be.
If the casino has a 9% advantage on a hard 8, surely the player would have a 9% advantage if they could book the same exact bet as the casino, right? Putting my $9 up against the casino's $1 (which is the same scenario that plays out on a standard hard 8 bet, just reversed) is the same as putting my $1 up against the casino's $(1/9).
'House Edge' is actually a bit of a misnomer.
The casino isn't betting $1 against your $1. The casino is betting $9 against your $1. You just have a 9% disadvantage.
The casino has a 1% or so advantage on their $9 bet. You have a 9% (or so) disadvantage on your $1 bet.
IE: Player $1 bet: has 10 ways to lose $1 and 1 way to win $9. The total money wagered is $11. The sum of outcomes (10*-1 + 1*9) is -1.
-1/11 ~ -9%
The casino, on the other hand, is betting $9. 1 way to lose $9 and 10 ways to win $1. Total money wagered is $99. The sum of outcomes (-9*1 + 1*10) is +1.
+1/99 ~ +1%.ThatDonGuy
Hard Eight Craps Payout Payouts
'House Edge' is actually a bit of a misnomer.
The casino isn't betting $1 against your $1. The casino is betting $9 against your $1. You just have a 9% disadvantage.
The casino has a 1% or so advantage on their $9 bet. You have a 9% (or so) disadvantage on your $1 bet.
This. +1. Whatever the term for 'exactly' is this week.
The amount of the house edge is the same on both sides of the place bet because you are putting up 9x what the casino is.
The percentage, on the other hand, is different because each side is betting a different amount.
in any case that has to be the most unheard of bet in a casino - to take the large end of the bet. I can't think of anything like that for the moment
I take it back, the most unheard of thing is to intentionally allow a bet with a player edge
When it comes table games I think Craps has the largest lay bet available at 19 to 41 when laying the 4 or 10 (when factoring in the vig). I can't think of anything with a smaller payout compared to the original bet.
You can lay much higher odds on sports. The infamous No Safety SB bet comes to mind.
This is just a thought experiment for me, not a serious idea that I'm going to try to sell to casinos or anything. They wouldn't want this bet. Obviously if a casino did implement this it would not be at 1 to 9. It would be at 1 to 10 or 1 to 11. Much like how 99% of sports betters don't lay -900 on No Safety in the SB, 99% of players would never lay 1 to 9 on a bet at a Craps table even if they had an advantage so no players would ever lay 1 to 10 or 1 to 11 on a bet where the casino had an advantage so it would just never be implemented.
Big six and big eight are found in the corners of some layouts, and they're the ultimate sucker bets. Each is a wager on one number, either 6 or 8, to roll before the 7. Big six or big eight work exactly like a craps 'place bet,' except the payoff is even money. That's right: $30 on the big six wins $30. The same money on 'place the six' will bring $35.
The house edge on big six/eight is a nasty 9.1%. This bet is so incredibly bad that it's not even allowed in Atlantic City.
Hardways
A 4, 6, 8, or 10 thrown as a double is called a 'hard number,' because it's rolled the hard way. Betting the hardway is a wager that a particular number will be thrown hard before a 7, and before it's thrown the easy way. Hard four and hard ten pay 7:1. Hard six and hard eight pay 9:1. The area for these bets is at the center of the table. The bet can be made at any time, or withdrawn at any time (before resolution).
It requires dealer assistance. Just put your chips on the table and tell the dealer what you want…if you dare. The house edge for hard six and hard eight is a painful 9.1%. It's an excruciating 11.1% for hard four and hard ten.
It Gets Even Worse…
The rest of the worst are all one-roll propositions: if the shooter makes the number on the next roll, you win. Otherwise, it's bye-bye chips. Like the hardways, these bets are handled by the stickperson. Put your chips down on a line, a non-betting area of the felt, and tell the dealers what you want.
The table below shows the various bets, true odds, payoffs, and the house edge. I've also included the hardways and big six/eight so you can see and compare all of craps' worst bets in one place. This is a real rogues' gallery.
Craps' Worst Bets
| Bet | True Odds | Pays | House Edge |
| Any seven (big red) | 5:1 | 4:1 | 16.7% |
| Two (snake eyes) | 35:1 | 30:1 | 13.9% |
| Twelve (boxcars) | 35:1 | 30:1 | 13.9% |
| Hop (1 way) | 35:1 | 30:1 | 13.9% |
| Whirl | 10:5 | 8:5 | 13.3% |
| Horn | 20:4 | 17:4 | 12.5% |
| Hop (2 ways) | 17:1 | 15:1 | 11.1% |
| Three (ace-deuce) | 17:1 | 15:1 | 11.1% |
| Eleven (yo-leven) | 17:1 | 15:1 | 11.1% |
| Any craps (2, 3, or 12) | 8:1 | 7:1 | 11.1% |
| Hard four | 8:1 | 7:1 | 11.1% |
| Hard ten | 8:1 | 7:1 | 11.1% |
| Hard six | 10:1 | 9:1 | 9.1% |
| Hard eight | 10:1 | 9:1 | 9.1% |
| Big six/eight | 6:5 | 1:1 | 9.1% |
By the way, this is where craps jargon really gets crazy. For example, horn is a combined bet on 2, 3, 11, and 12. The payoff is calculated as if you had bet each number separately. Your wager is divided into quarters, so if you make this long-shot bet it's a good idea to put money down in multiples of four, or request a horn high and indicate on which of the four you want the extra money: 'Horn high 12!'
Whirl is a horn bet with the 7 added. The bet is divided into five parts. C&E is craps plus 11. Buffalo is a combination of the four hardways plus a 7 or sometimes a 'yo' 11. Box cars is a bet on 12. A hop bet is a wager that a single number will be thrown in a particular way on the very next roll. Technically, 2, 3, 11, and 12 are hop bets, but you can do it with any number (assuming that you'd be willing to make such a bad wager).
This cornucopia of colorful names and slang are basically just another way of saying 'bets that stink.' There isn't a single bet in the center of the table that has a house edge of less than 9%. Betting the seven (big red) gives the house a crushing 16.7% advantage, which is flat-out the worst bet available in many casinos.
Oh, and some casinos try to trick you with the print on the felt. Writing '5 for 1' is not the same as '5 to 1.' They pretend that they're paying one more because they take your original wager. The actual payout on 5 for 1 is 4:1; 10 for 1 is actually 9:1. Really cute!
The Good Stuff
The best bets in craps begin with a small wager on pass, don't pass, come, or don't come, subsequently backed up with a standard-size odds bet (whatever amount that is standard for you, up to the odds limit) if the shooter rolls a point. Odds bets are paid at true odds with zero edge for the house. It doesn't get any better than that in craps. The combined edge on the two bets is less than 1%, or about twelve times lower than hardways or proposition wagers.
Once again, casinos get tricky. There is no place on a craps layout for odds bets. They're sort of secret, like off-menu items. To take odds on a pass-line wager, put your chips behind your original bet, off the line. Laying odds on a don't pass requires you to heel or bridge the stack on the bar; the dealers will show you how. Odds on come and don't come are handled by the dealers. For more on the intricacies of odds, check out my book The Smarter Bet Guide to Craps.
**********
Basil Nestor is author of The Smarter Bet Guide to Poker, The Smarter Bet Guide to Blackjack, and other comprehensive gambling guides. Got a question? Visit SmarterBet.com and drop him a line.
How to identify and avoid some of the most dangerous bets in the casino.
I had an idea for a new Craps prop bet and was trying to write some Python code that would simulate the bet, but ran into an issue.
My assumption was that if you flipped the rules of a bet and you flipped the payouts of the bet the house edge on that new hypothetical bet could be expressed by simply changing the sign of the house edge on the original bet.
Say you turned the hard 8 bet into a lay the hard 8 bet. You win on 7 or easy 8 before the next hard 8. You're essentially acting like the casino at that point and the payouts go from 9:1 to 1:9. Shouldn't the house edge on this new hypothetical bet be -9.09% since the house edge on hard 8 is 9.09%?
To test my assumption, I ran a 10 million round simulation of the traditional hard 8 bet and laying the hard 8 and was surprised to find that while the original hardway bet did show a house edge of ~ 9%, laying the hard 8 showed a house edge of ~ -1%.
I'm trying to determine if the mistake I've made is in the assumption that a house edge flips if you flip the payouts and the rules of the bet or if the mistake I've made is in the Python code I've written.
Any thoughts?
Returns:
Hard eight player edge: -9.11%
Lay hard eight player edge: 0.98%
Your mistake is, while you are 'acting like the casino' when you lay the bet, the casino is betting 1/9 against your 1, rather than 1 against your 9, but your house edge is based on your bet rather than the casino's.
If the casino has a 9% advantage on a hard 8, surely the player would have a 9% advantage if they could book the same exact bet as the casino, right? Putting my $9 up against the casino's $1 (which is the same scenario that plays out on a standard hard 8 bet, just reversed) is the same as putting my $1 up against the casino's $(1/9).
if you only had to put up $9 I agree that the player would get the casino's exact edge for himself
in any case that has to be the most unheard of bet in a casino - to take the large end of the bet. I can't think of anything like that for the moment
I take it back, the most unheard of thing is to intentionally allow a bet with a player edge
I'm sorry but I really don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that this bet really would only be an advantage of 1% if the player could make it? I don't see how that could be.
If the casino has a 9% advantage on a hard 8, surely the player would have a 9% advantage if they could book the same exact bet as the casino, right? Putting my $9 up against the casino's $1 (which is the same scenario that plays out on a standard hard 8 bet, just reversed) is the same as putting my $1 up against the casino's $(1/9).
'House Edge' is actually a bit of a misnomer.
The casino isn't betting $1 against your $1. The casino is betting $9 against your $1. You just have a 9% disadvantage.
The casino has a 1% or so advantage on their $9 bet. You have a 9% (or so) disadvantage on your $1 bet.
IE: Player $1 bet: has 10 ways to lose $1 and 1 way to win $9. The total money wagered is $11. The sum of outcomes (10*-1 + 1*9) is -1.
-1/11 ~ -9%
The casino, on the other hand, is betting $9. 1 way to lose $9 and 10 ways to win $1. Total money wagered is $99. The sum of outcomes (-9*1 + 1*10) is +1.
+1/99 ~ +1%.ThatDonGuy
Hard Eight Craps Payout Payouts
'House Edge' is actually a bit of a misnomer.
The casino isn't betting $1 against your $1. The casino is betting $9 against your $1. You just have a 9% disadvantage.
The casino has a 1% or so advantage on their $9 bet. You have a 9% (or so) disadvantage on your $1 bet.
This. +1. Whatever the term for 'exactly' is this week.
The amount of the house edge is the same on both sides of the place bet because you are putting up 9x what the casino is.
The percentage, on the other hand, is different because each side is betting a different amount.
in any case that has to be the most unheard of bet in a casino - to take the large end of the bet. I can't think of anything like that for the moment
I take it back, the most unheard of thing is to intentionally allow a bet with a player edge
When it comes table games I think Craps has the largest lay bet available at 19 to 41 when laying the 4 or 10 (when factoring in the vig). I can't think of anything with a smaller payout compared to the original bet.
You can lay much higher odds on sports. The infamous No Safety SB bet comes to mind.
This is just a thought experiment for me, not a serious idea that I'm going to try to sell to casinos or anything. They wouldn't want this bet. Obviously if a casino did implement this it would not be at 1 to 9. It would be at 1 to 10 or 1 to 11. Much like how 99% of sports betters don't lay -900 on No Safety in the SB, 99% of players would never lay 1 to 9 on a bet at a Craps table even if they had an advantage so no players would ever lay 1 to 10 or 1 to 11 on a bet where the casino had an advantage so it would just never be implemented.
Hard Eight Craps Payouts
I'm just messing around trying to intersect my interest in (basic) programming with my interest in gambling.